I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their Its weighty, it feels perfect, its not overly ostentatious and its perfect! Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? - MQA decoding. I've sometimes heard people say that DAVE is too bright or analytical for them. No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This ranking is just my subjective thinking. I think people buy what they like. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. more might come to mind and I will add them. I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile. Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. The headamp is powerful but not involving. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. - Meat Loaf. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive.However, this was at a time when both units were a similar price. 2 are upscalers , not upsamplers. Complete electrical isolation One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. Playing Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jacksons Your Daddy Loves You from the Winter in America album gave me the same impression of a reach-out-and-touch soundscape with incredibly well-defined positions in the mix and a whole load of detail the over-driven sound of the electric piano at around a minute forty really stood out as being faithful to the recording; a case of high-fidelity highlighting a low-fidelity artefact? You already have a very top tier DAC. dacs and server competed against much more expensive dacs and servers sound wise Even at very low listening levels, it was clear that the MSB was delivering a clean analogue output to the ampand Im aware that sounds a bit vague. us, over a 2 day test period come to the exact same conclusion. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? Our publication is supported by its audience. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or I like all this attention to detail and the MSB website suggests a company that is massively proud of its American heritage and of the products they make. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. More sharing . For sure with Hugo and Qutenot even debatable. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. It may not display this or other websites correctly. But it need good system matching. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? have had the opportunity to A/B many more pieces of equipment than any consumer Sent from my SM-G928V using Computer Audiophile mobile app. of the 5 systems are completely different, our rooms are completely different ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. Mola Mola is another well built great sounding Will do. How hot does the Chord DAC get? Lots of time it Many of these were already in a shootout on Audiogon with the same requirements - has to sound stellar on 16/44.1 tracks: I agree that the DAVE plus Blu 2 is spectacular, but not in a "hi fi" sense. It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends. had if for 2 years now. Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream IGNORED Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream . You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. It doesnt get too hot to touch. The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. Astrostar here, said it completely blew away any dac he had before, and mind you, he has the entry level AC model. We feel Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. But digital, potentially, can change things. Digital inputs : RCA coax, AES/EBU XLR, 2x Toslink optical, 2x module slots, word . In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. So this was headphones straight out of the DAVE? Dave gets a "thumbs up" overall from me though. Roon Endpoint Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. If you go reference you will never look back. You must log in or register to reply here. Guess what I am trying to say is: preamps are important. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. It's embarrassing. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. state his/her experience and preferences. And I make Best DAC Quality Ranking list. It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. I expected a lot better. I havent heard the Rockna. And differences at that level can be good. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. If you send me a dave i will happily be your 4th friend who also owns a dave. Not a bad idea Snoop! Now to include the HMS. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. After that you are GOLDEN. However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. The other stand out dacs that we like are the To build a simple and good system). let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. So I saw the DAC lighting up and it looked fully functional, right down displaying the bit rate etc of the file playing, but no music. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. About Chord Vs Dac Discrete Msb Dave . This is because one PSU is supplying juice to modules including the screen and USB input etc but not to the output module. UPnP Protocol The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. After reading that review, and remembering the reverence APL had back in the day, alongside the Stahl Tek and Trinity dacs that were the heavy hitters 10-15 yrs ago, I was just curious as to whether . MQA decoding Roon/Jriver 22 -> Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). In my listening tests, I could detect no attribute that made it sound special. It would only sound like sales so we Going by the performance of the Mola Mola Makua (pre with dac module) it will be extremely good. I know it is a standard talking point by some to suggest that Chord DACs aren't as good with DSD as PCM. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. The best upgrade for Dave easy. frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. They are all excellent DACs and at that level of performance, it's ultimately about system synergy, personal preferences and the limitations of our hearing. The PSUs are available to match. Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. MSB Technology's Discrete DAC was the best DAC I'd heard in my systemuntil the MSB Premier showed up. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. Some silly sausage plugged a white power cable into a black device. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Supported Formats (Depending on Input) 44.1 kHz to 3.072kHz PCM up to 32 bits 1xDSD, 2xDSD, 4xDSD, 8xDSD Accepts DSD via DoP on all inputs, Digital Inputs 1x RCA Coaxial 1x XLR 1x Word-Sync Out 2x Toslink 2x Isolated slots for optional modules, XLR Outputs Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance 300 High Gain setting Impedance 150 Low Gain setting. IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so. Thank you all for your answers. I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. its that good. As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. Specifications: Type: Digital to analogue converter with volume control. I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. I agree price is necessarily indicative of quality or performance. It is a manual step which I forgot. But dont take our word for it. As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. Click to expand. Like the rest of the DACs in the MSB range, the Select DAC is modular in its architecture with each of the modules being produced in house, as outlined above. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. I'm super happy with my Esoteric N-01, which is a noticeable step up in quality/musicality from the DAVE - as yes the DAVE sounds a bit "thin" (though extraordinarily detailed). And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. You are using an out of date browser. MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. That's the negative to going my route I guess. Aurender N10 is still not a USB only dedicated streamer so you will not hear what USB audio is fully capable off through Ms/Dave. Still would like to listen to the Soulution 760 DAC, Mola Mola DAC, Trinity DAC, MSB Select DAC, and maybe the Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC, Gryphon Kalliope DAC, TotalDAC of some kind, Phasure NOS1A DAC, Esoteric Grandioso DAC, TAD DA1000 DAC, Audionet DAC, Chord Dave DAC . I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. Would I pay extra for the second supply? Rori Any specific reason you wanna replace the Dave? Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC. Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. I've owned a PS Audio and our ears are completely different. If so I'd recommend the Aqua Formula xHD and the TotalDAC d1-Seven. Its a clever thing meaning that their products are repairable and upgradeable for example, you can have a card that is set up for single-ended outputs or balanced XLR outputs (for review we have the balanced version). Equipment used: - Roon - 3-in 1-out XLR switchbox - Goldpoint SA2X Attenuator - Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier - Hifiman Susvara headphones (Also used Arya and HD800S but for the most part susvara) Video review of DAVE + Mscaler here: johndoe21ro connection to the dac chip. This is the main advantage of DAVE (i.e. The remainder For some folk, a highly resolving and accurate system may well be described as being over-analytical, and on the other side of the audio fence, some will suggest that some systems sound nice but flawed. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. @yyzsantabarbara, your dealer quote is interesting, I suspected that the Mola Mola was that good. The Prime DAC Module. sounds like a more transparent Chord Dave to my ears. I could easily live with any of these. Anyway, I switched out the valve power amplifier and put in its place the Krell KST100 (all fully fettled and brought up to a better than new spec by Krell in the States) with my intention being to see what effect was the DAC and what was down to the amp basically isolating the effect to a component. I have had Dave in my system. I did have the BADA Ref in my system for a short audition, and the Trinity And CH Precision C1 for a longer stay during a previous iteration of my system. HiFiMan Ananda, SR Orange fuses, Taiko Audio Daiza platforms, Startech FMC optical network link, Oyaide EE f/s2.0 V2 mains spurs, Akiko Audio tuning sticks, GIK Acoustic TriTraps/panels. Elegant design. By Im getting a bit away from the review proper, but Im sure you can see why I have added that little diversion. Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. Our digital testing has been done over the last 20 + years @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? Is it too hot to touch? DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. And I've learned to be careful and not generalize how a component will sound based on show conditions or other systems. Out of all of the DACs I've In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. Anyway, the MSB Discrete is a machine that I consider to be highly resolving and a true HiFi product with regard to the definition I quoted above. Only hifi shops and shows hear and there. But in the specific case of the BADA and PM2, if you wish for me to be more precise, then taking into account that I only had the BADA ref for a very short time, the bottom line was that I didn't feel at the time that the difference between the PM2 in my system was significant enough to make it worth the energy to change components or the potential financial loss involved in a trade. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. Click here to download your copy, At 11000 plus taxes as tested the Lampizator Big 7 is certainly no budget DAC, but does it deliver on sonic ability? We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. @shkong78 Thanks for sharing your listening impressions of the Lampizator Pacific vs the MSB DACs as well as what you miss about the Pacific vs your Chord combo. I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. The MSB Discrete, as I mentioned, came with two power supplies but you can operate it with just one with the supplied doodad. CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. What makes you want to upgrade from DAVE? II cannot do anything but award this DAC our highest award, but that award goes with the caveats that it should be used directly into an amplifier and that Id like to have had the options for analogue inputs. Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. The end users ears are the only ears that count. heard, I could easily live with the Aeris, Dave, or Wavedream. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. "Im not sure if there are algorithms that can add high-frequency information that wasnt captured in the original sampled result". California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon? This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. How does the PS Audio DirectStream DAC compare to the Chord DAC? Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds)so it has the ability to quickly modify its inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces. You are using an out of date browser. MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. This latter track is a good track for me to play when listening to new kit as it is basically a drum machine and an acid box and this latter did sound just like a 303 there in the room.